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Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, Scott Luton, Greg White and Kevin L. Jackson here with you on Supply Chain. Now welcome to Hello, today's Live Stream, Gregory. How we doing?
Well, other than being a little bit unshaven
I'm doing pretty well. All things considered. You know, the news about SVB Friday hit, um, me personally and a lot of people that I do business pretty directly, so I didn't spend a lot of time shaving this weekend, though I did happen to get to a, an early St. Patrick's Day parade. So it's been a little excellent. Yeah.
Excellent. Well, we're gonna talk about what you mentioned on the front end, uh, yeah. In, in about 10 minutes here and get some of your, you and Kevin's take, Kevin. Yeah. How you doing today?
Well, you know, I'm, uh, apprehensive, let's put it that way. Uh, okay. You know, uh, I live in, uh, on East coast, the Washington DC area, you know, and everybody went through Sunday where we lost that hour's sleep with the clocks jumping forward and, and now, and I gotta jump on a plane tomorrow and fly out to the West Coast to San Francisco. Um, so may, uh, circadian rhythm is going to be, as they say in the military, a f u baby <laugh> <laugh>.
Oh. Uh, well, I like that. And I also like how you pronounced, uh, the city where the Giants and the Honors play San Francisco on that last, uh, Sy. Well, Greg and Kevin, great to have you back. Uh, Greg, of course, Kevin joins us every second Tuesday of the month for our digital Transformers version of the Supply Chain Buzz. And as if that's not great enough to have Kevin with us, we've got a, uh, special guest joining in about 1225 today as Michael Patel with Fulfilled is gonna be joining us as well. So, hey, beyond Greg and Kevin and Michael's p pov and expertise, we want to hear yours. So, I see a few folks already in comments. We're gonna say hello in just a moment. Okay. So Greg and Kevin, before we get to work, I wanna do some programming notes. We're gonna say hello to a few folks, and then we, we, we've got a lot of lot of stuff to get into today, but I think folks can find very informational and, and hopefully inspirational. We'll see.
Scott. Scott, yes, sir. You know, we, you know, we only have a five pound bag. Why you keep bringing 10 pounds <laugh>?
It's in my nature, man. It is in my nature what everything we can fit in that five pound bag. It's the opposite of shrink ifl, right, Greg? The opposite.
Yeah, that's right. You know, uh, on that point, Scott, yeah, I discovered that b Budweiser long necks are now only 11 ounces
<laugh>. Oh, they're cutting back,
Man. They really snuck that ounce, that 12th ounce out of there, huh?
Yeah, the bottle is just slightly smaller. Hmm.
I'm trying to help you protect your girlish figure there. <laugh>. Yeah,
<laugh>. I just made it, I just drank 12, so it would,
It's all about, uh, uh, leveling up. So anyway, so let's, let's share a couple of quick, uh, opportunities for folks. So first off, um, we're really excited about this webinar coming up March 21st, who's not creating content these days, right? Well, we're gonna be offering up, uh, five tips for creating effective digital content. Greg and I are bringing in a couple of friends. Y'all may know 'em, I know Kevin does. Yes. Ursula ring them with s a p and the one and only Brandy Boatner with I b m, uh, Brandy, who hosts, uh, a wonderful, um, uh, podcast, a radio show, uh, she's gonna talk more about. But, uh, Kevin Brandy is quite the rock and roll star, huh?
Oh, a absolutely. I, I got an opportunity to hang out with her at the, uh, Wilmington up in, uh, Wimbleton, uh, up in New York earlier, uh, this year. I guess it was this year. <laugh>. That was fun. Well, maybe it was last year. Yeah. But that was fun. We had a, um, out on the lawn, uh, there, uh, uh, by Brooklyn Bridge, you know, watching, uh, on the big screen, the, uh, Wimbledon.
Well, and I, I saw lots of, of content from that and, and it was very entertaining, engaging, educational. Lot of stuff we're going at, we're, we're getting after on this March 21st webinar. So, Greg, looking forward to that one. And then secondly, I wanna share with folks, so this was, uh, with that set over the weekend. So Greg, uh, we need you to sit down and talk about this one day in instant replayed, N f nfl, of course, uh, the Kansas City Chiefs, uh, your team, the, the reigning, uh, world champions. But we came up with a little, this little, uh, we talked about instant replay and maybe applying instant replay to the global business space. And we're like, Hey, maybe it should be continuous pre play, right? <laugh> kinda little play on giving folks information they need. Greg, uh, you're, you're your thoughts, whether it's instant replay or continuous pre play, or the chiefs
Yeah. Well, uh, it's funny, you, uh, I love, I love this phrase. Uh, I heard once somebody say hindsight is 50 50,
Maybe more accurate in 20 talk, we talk about pre or pre, um, what, what should we say? Premonition there, you forecasting and that sort thing. We use hindsight to try and gauge what the future will. So in business it's experience now to football,
Using hindsight to gain foresight. And we found out, you know, during the pandemic that don't work, baby's right, supply chain, that don't work.
That's right. Uh, what they say past performance is no indication of future value, right? <laugh> Now on, on the NFL field, I would say yes, instant. And when I say instant, instant replay could be used to, to, uh, challenge certain calls, like calls where it's called roughing the passer, when in fact, by the time the passer hits the ground, he's no longer the ball carrier and the ball is already turned over to the defense, Chris Jones and Derek Clark
More AI and instant replay.
Yes, that's right. Well, and as Greg and Kevin are illustrating, we had a lot of fun, uh, with this notion of instant replay within business. And, and look, we really put it out there to hopefully inspire some conversations and get y'alls take. So do that. Check that out. Uh, we also dropped a link in the chat, uh, we published with that said, just about every Saturday morning LinkedIn newsletter. And come on and join about 20,393 of your, uh, best friends as we dive in those conversations. <laugh> night four. Thanks, Kevin. All right.
A ticker. We need a ticker in the corner.
Hey, building that has been, uh, certainly a, a passionate project. The whole team here. Cause we launched that probably Greg, what, four months ago? Maybe? Something like that.
Doesn't seem like that long, but I think it has been. Yeah. And it grown so fast, right? That's
Right. We've gotten a ton of feedback. So y'all join in and let us know what you'd like to see. Uh, but, but most importantly, join in the conversation. Um, alright, so Kevin and Greg, we're gonna say hello to a few folks and we're gonna dive into, uh, a couple of big, uh, stories and segments. Uh, see Zou tuning in via LinkedIn from Kenya. Great to see you here today. John Perry, one of our faves. John, hopefully you brought that great sense of humor today. One of our favorites here around, uh, on the buzz. Angela tuned in from North Carolina via LinkedIn. Great. See ya. Angela Demaine Harris from Metro Detroit. Love that. Yeah. Via LinkedIn.
Yeah. Let us know what part of the, of, uh, the reinvigorated city of Detroit that you, you are healing from. Joseph. Guys are great. Love last week's webinar and you drew me back in Joseph. Man, I appreciate.
That's what I thought. I was out, they pull me back in
Well, Joseph, thank you for the feedback. We, uh, I certainly, um, we very grateful for lots and lots of feedback, uh, Antonio from Detroit as well. Okay.
You know, last night I saw this, uh, show about, uh, Detroit son, Eminem.
<laugh>. You saw Eminem's backstory, huh? Yeah. Uh, that's
Pretty, that was, that was pretty enlightening.
Okay. All right. We'll have to check that out. Greg is tuned in from Wisconsin, uh, zero inches of snow.
Think that's supposed to be 10,
No, 10 inches of snow. Yeah, 10 inches of snow. Eyes are messing with me. And he says, go Marquette. Hey, everybody is filling out their brackets right now. Know our team is, we got an internal challenge, but Greg, great to have you back as always. And hey, moms, good morning, Leah Luton for baking. South Carolina.
Hey Leah. Thank you. No, shout out. I like
That. Yeah. Everybody's a big fan of Greg and Kevin. So great to have mom as part of the conversation. Um, okay. You're
Right? Yeah. Well, she gets that. Oh, okay. <laugh>, she's an ambassador, paying ambassador. I should, I should, I should put that out there, right? Greg <laugh>. So
Every mother she gets, she gets
<laugh>. All right folks, well, you came to the right place today. Supply chain buzz takes place every Monday at 12 noon eastern time. Gotta a jam up episode. We've got two big things we're gonna dive into with Greg and Kevin, and then we've got our special guest, Michael Patel, will fulfill joining us about 1225. So, uh, let's start with this. Let's get, let's get to work here. So, Greg, um, of course, really, um, you know, kidding aside, some really tough news and developments that have been coming out in the last, uh, three or four days, uh, SVP Silicon Valley Bank, the second biggest bank to ever go under. And then the third biggest in signature, Paul of that. So, um, rather than dive into the story, folks can find that across different headlines. I'd rather dial it in with your expertise, as you mentioned on the front end. I mean, this is your, been your space for no more than two decades, right? That's our standing rule.
Thank you for saying that.
But you, you've got a unique purview on this situation cause of the different angles and different, um, sectors and positions you've been in as a fellow founder, but also an investor, you know, uh, in, uh, experience in peace space, and a lot more. So tell us, what would your advice to fellow founders be when it comes to navigating these, these cash flow pitfalls? I'll call
'em. Uh, first of all, I think a little bit of backstory is appropriate here. Cause before Friday or Thursday, almost no one had heard of, of Silicon Valley Bank. If you weren't in the tech space, the 16th biggest bank in the country, still huge, 209 billion in assets under management, 90% of which was not insured because of the size of accounts. So this is the bank that, and the reason that, Scott, we need to talk about this, right, is this is the bank that founders and venture capitalists and private equity firms put their money into 250,000 insured, but often tens of millions or even billions of dollars in accounts at this bank. And so many, many, uh, companies were highly exposed when, when the bank under actually was taken over by the F D I C, they walk in, they tell everyone you're fired. They shut the doors and literally chain lock them in so many cases.
Wow. And, and the bank literally goes away. It goes away virtually instantaneously. The F D I C creates another bank into which everyone's assets are moved. That's the insured bank. Um, and you up to two 50,000, your money is insured. And we saw a lot of rhetoric over the weekend, especially politicians and bureaucrats. Of course, they have to be heard. Um, they have to feel seen and be seen <laugh>. Um, and, and a lot of them said, we're not gonna backstop the bank. Well, of course, we never backstop the bank. We backstop the depositors. So I think that's the thing we have to recognize here. Janet Yellen literally did nothing. The F D I C did all this work based on the, the structure that is in place. And so far, it looks like all, uh, deposits will be secured and restored, and I believe have been restored as of today from the reserves, ok.
That the F FBI has. But it did. Let's think about what day it is, right? It is March 13th, two days from March 15th. Most companies pay on a twice monthly schedule. So on Friday, tens of thousands of companies found out they won't be able to make payroll on, on Monday, right? Cause they have to send at the bank or, you know, get it scheduled, all that sort thing. So that creates quite the crisis. Will we ever get our money back? Creates quite the crisis, right? How could this happen? I mean, if you've been following any of this on the news or through the multiple phone calls that I've gotten over the weekend, um, then you understand the strain that this puts on the market. There's lots of speculation as to whether other banks will go down. Signature Bank did go down. Um, other banks got got backs stopped.
Uh, first Republic, which is a big competitor, relatively big competitor of svb, got money from JP Morgan. Um, SVB UK got bought for one pound, not one pound of anything, just one, one, um, by Hssbc. And that's, if SVB in the state sells, that's what it'll sell for. But in the meantime, these companies had an incredible liquidity crisis, right? Tens of millions or even billions of dollars just disappeared overnight. Fortunately, that's been taken care of. But, um, one, one lesson we can learn here from these banks is don't put yourself in a cash cashflow crisis. And I say that to founders, to businesses, whether you're in technology or not, and to banks, because we will see more bank failures. It's, it's inevitable. This is not a singular effect. There's already been a bank in India, hundred 16 year old bank that will probably go outta business man on, on the back of, of svb.
But don't put yourself in a liquidity crisis. And part of the problem is that so many companies in the tech space have been betting on really, really risky things because they got this huge influx of cash and they thought, well, we can't deploy all this to improve the company all at once. So in the meantime, let's invest it. Let's invest it in things like bonds and crypto gotta help you if you've done <laugh>, um, and other things that, that they've been trying to make extra money on. Um, or they've tied up their money in, in CDs or other things that have been gain growing interest as interest has gotten, um, so much, so much higher, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> that both the interest that we pay and the interest that we can receive on deposit. Yeah. So focus on what you're good at. Put your money into what your business is, and recognize that your business is building software or building widgets, right?
Or employing, um, labor or, or delivering services or whatever it, you know, moving trucks, that sort of thing. Put your money into something that you know, and that you can control to avoid this kind of liquidity crisis. That's probably the best advice that I can give. The other is, Scott, we were just talking about hindsight is 50 50 or 2020, or whatever the hell you wanna call it, <laugh> Hindsight, as we know, is not necessarily a of the future. And for 13 years we've been on this great bull run of economy where money was essentially free. Interest rates were almost zero. And as rates started to increase, people didn't change their understanding of their business model. They were blind to this. And if you go to my commentary, I go into a little bit more detail on that, but also recognize when the world is changing, don't see everything that doesn't affirm your current belief as a blip, right? Or as a glitch in the matrix or whatever. Recognize that things could be changing and that it could be an accumulation of issues like this Silicon Valley Bank. Every bank should have seen this coming. Yeah. Right? And, and it's, it's an unbeliev It took an unbelievable amount of hub glu greed, not just greed and a, which by the way is redundant. They didn't need to say both in the title <laugh>.
You got me to use that article and just sloth thinking we can just sit back here and make money because we've been doing it for 13 years. Well, the game has changed, and it's time to recognize that its way past time to recognize that. I encourage companies to get ahead of that, look around corners, look for problems, not away from problems. Look at, look at changes, and recognize that they could be foundational changes to the environment that you're playing in. Right? It's like if you start a football game on a sunny day and it suddenly starts snowing, or in the old Chicago Bears game, it gets so foggy you can't see a pass thrown or coming at you. Right? You have to change how you play the game when, when things change that dramatically,
Greg, well said. And really enjoyed. Maybe the team can drop the link to your must see p o v your supply chain commentary every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. And Kevin, lemme wanna get your thoughts here, but one of the things I heard from Greg is, stick to your strengths. You know, don't act like t Rowe Price if you're TRO Payne or, or a software <laugh>, software <laugh> founder Kevin, your thoughts here.
Well, I mean, the first thing, and, and I agree with everything that Greg said, but foundational to that, what he said is that business is about using assets, tangible and intangible, but assets, things that have value to deliver value to society. You know, business isn't about leverage. Trying, trying to leverage something that has no value. Um, and that brings up like the difference between cryptocurrency, which many cryptocurrencies, there are no underlying assets, right? And crypto securities, where there are actual assets that support the crypto security. Mm-hmm. Um, and the, the thing that if you're running a business, uh, like S V B, you know, they tried, they took their customers money and invested in the bond market mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But when the bond market was losing and they were losing, uh, in the crypto as well, management didn't, didn't change anything. They just sat there. Um, it was just a, um, it was a lack of management, uh, taking care or doing their job, their fiduciary responsibilities. Mm-hmm. All right. And, you know, that's just, that's just wrong. That's just being a crook. That's just not doing your job. Yeah. You know, and, uh, I I, I, I feel for companies that may get, you know, have a liquidity crisis because of things that are outside of their control. Right. But this wasn't outside their control. This was, you know, right.
Yeah. Yeah. So, no pity here. Sorry. Yeah.
Greg and Kevin. Greg and Kevin, I appreciate, uh, both of y'all's perspective here. Um, I'm sure we'll be talking a lot more about this in, in the shows to come. But, uh, for the sake of today's show, we got about five, six minutes before we bring in our, our guest. And I wanna touch on, I wanna get closer to what we, we usually, uh, touch on all the time, which is global supply chain. And, and Kevin, you've got the, you brought this article, uh, today where we talk about, Hey, don't start and stop with just robotics when it comes to really going after all that digital transformation offers. So tell us more here, Kevin.
Well, no robots, uh, are a part of digital transformation, right? And when you do deploy robots, you also need to look at your own business processes. Uh, and you use robotic process automation. But many enterprises have actually encountered roadblocks when they use R P A, and they found it was very lacking and they couldn't achieve all of the benefits of digital transformation. And reasons for that is, cause a lot of times RPA kind of falls short when it comes to execution with projects taking, you know, nine, 10 months to get deployed. Uh, RPAs really don't address the front end user interface, okay? And it doesn't define new workflows. You as the owner of the business that know the business, supposedly need to redefine the workflows. And R P A has limited ability to really automate processes end to end. Okay. And they can break. So you have to do your job in monitoring.
I mean, humans are important, even in robotic process automation. Right? Okay. And, and so when you are trying to govern these robots across BART Farms, it becomes very challenging, uh, especially when the enterprises are using bots from multiple vendors to do different things. Mm-hmm. So what that means is that you really have to be intelligent about your automation. Uh, and that requires the orchestration of automation technologies like process mapping. And, uh, you need to leverage intelligence technology like artificial intelligence, machine learning, and computer vision. Uh, and finally you need a solid NextGen IT infrastructure that's built on top of cloud with applications that run in containers on composable infrastructures. Now, if you don't understand that last sentence, you are gonna fail <laugh> in digital transformation. And that's, that's really what's happening out there. People aren't, you know, um, they don't understand the foundation mm-hmm. <affirmative> of digital transformation.
All right. So, Greg, I'm gonna, we, you chiming really quickly here, but one of the things I heard here from Kevin is orchestration, right? Uh, take advantage of robots and everything that digital transformation offers, but you gotta have a Mozart or Lydia TAR involved <laugh> to, to, to make it a, uh, uh, to maestro it all. Greg, your thoughts here?
Yeah. Well, I think, um, digital transformation isn't about digital at all, as Kevin has often told us, right? I mean, this is one thing I've learned from the master over the last several years, is it's not about digital at all. To his point, it's about enabling, uh, or re or replacing activities that, that humans are doing or used to do or shouldn't do. Right? It's those dark, dirty, dangerous and dull jobs. It's things like that. Um, but, you know, one thing that you said, uh, about the implementations, I think a couple things need, need to change. One, we need to re realize that AI built, AI actual intelligence builds artificial intelligence, <laugh>, and for artificial intelligence to, to become educated, to become intelligence, it has to ingest actual intelligence, which comes from humans and the actions that they've done, or the outcomes they desire in a process, the things that they know about the data, or the process or the goals.
Um, and so it, it's critical that we make that link between people. Um, and the other is to recognize that, you know, I say this all the time, real digital transformation. It isn't a spreadsheet, it isn't even rpa. I mean, rpa, first of all, it stuns me, Kevin, that it could take nine months to do that. Most of that could be done, most RPA could be done with a keystroke recorder and some, you know, and some very simple logic. It, it did an invoice arrive? Yes. Check this field, that field, the other field, whatever. Right? So, um, there's not a lot
What's designed for, right?
There's not, there's not a lot of science in rpa. So it is ground level digital transformation at best. A lot of what Kevin, you talk about it is ai, it is blockchain. It is transformational and scientific. It is doing things as humans would do them with much greater speed, much greater accuracy, right? And much less human intervention or, or repetitive motions
Errors, much less human errors.
<laugh>. Yeah. Right, right. And, and it is really, it, it, it really is transformational to the business. This is RPA is, is kind of like the spreadsheet of automation, if you wanna think of it that way. It's really, really <inaudible> and it does great stuff, but it, but it's not, it's not the top of the heap. And I think we need to think about what digital transformation, first of all is for, it is for an outcome. And if you start with that outcome and work your way backwards, sure, you'll do some rpa, probably do some ai, may even do some blockchain or e or other things, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. But the key is to focus on how it enables people to either do a job more effectively, like assisted robots do, or to not do a job that humans are not fit for. That requires greater accuracy or danger or repetitive motion that we don't want humans to have to be involved in. Right?
Alright, we gotta leave it there. Thank you Greg and Kevin. Always love talking digital transformation with Kevin L. Jackson. But hey, we got a great second half of the show here. We've got a very special guest joining us, uh, Greg and Kevin, with no further ado, I wanna, uh, bring him right on in. Michael Patel, chief Technology Officer, we're fulfilled. Hey. Hey, Michael. How you doing?
Hey, everybody. Happy? Uh, happy Monday from the high Denver, Colorado.
Is it 70 or snowing? Michael
<laugh>. I wish you wait a second. It just changed
<laugh>. I saw, I hope Snow doesn't ruin our, our St. Patty's day plans on Friday. Well,
<laugh>, I I bet you were chomping at the bit, uh, through the first half the show to jump right in. Cause we were talk, we had, uh, a couple of really neat pre-show conversations. But let's, let's, um, <laugh>, I was gonna say, let's get to the important stuff right? Before we get into a couple of stories that you brought us, Michael, that we're gonna dive into, let's celebrate something, uh, so national, uh, yesterday was National Girl Scout Day, right? It, it coincides with the founding date of the, uh, organizations helped so many folks come, uh, become business leaders and, and helps so many folks on the journey. But we love talking food here at Supply Chain now for, for a lot of, a lot of us it is Girl Scout cookie season as well. So Michael, uh, fun and warmup question here. What is your favorite Girl Scout cookie?
Uh, that's amazing. You know, and I love when they run the, the, the Girl Scouts run those specials. Like, you buy three, you get the fourth free. Uh, so for me, it, it's, it's the ones with the coconut. It's the, it's the Samos. I think they're called her samosas. Welcome. The coconut. Okay. Oh, fantastic. Yeah, absolutely.
That, that's at the bottom of my list, but that's okay. Uh, um, that's, that's okay. Different strokes, different folks. Kevin, your favorite Cookie Girl Scout cookie,
Nothing but shortbread baby.
That's a very simple but elegant approach.
I like that. Simple but elegant. I like that, Greg. All right, Greg.
10 minutes, frozen. Hundred percent <laugh>.
Frozen. Yeah. Put 'em in the freezer, man. It's game changing.
We've talked, we, I, Greg, I think we've talked about this best practice each year for the last four years.
Yes. So we gotta do, we gotta shout from the mountaintops more and, and help folks out there. But then mints, uh, frozen a little bit, man, they are delightful, so mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, and, and they get the, they get today's blue ribbon. Um, alright, we got, got
Oh, man. I didn't, I didn't realize there was a prize. So you skin frozen as well? Yes.
Ok. Look, when we McDon those shorts, right,
There's gonna plenty of Samoas left over, Kevin. Cause Yes, I've already told my entire family if coconut was the last food on earth, I would starve to death.
Oh, Michael. Fighting words. Fighting words. All right, well, thank you
All for you, Michael. That's
Great. That's right. You've got all the supply in the world. That's great. Okay. Thank you all for playing along and, and folks in the chat let y'all let us know. Well, where have we gone wrong? Uh, Catherine says, <laugh>, don't think I've ever heard someone say shortbread is their favor. Hey,
Secret. You know, all you guys don't, don't eat no short breads. Okay? You don't want em, they're nasty. You know,
Do you drink? Do you eat those with like, do you
That? No, no, no. Uh, you know, Jack Daniels go well with football. <laugh> <laugh>.
You, you never know where, when you talk about Girl Scout cookies, you never know where the conversation goes. So thank y'all all for playing along, uh, not into, uh, kidding side. We got a lot of stuff to get into here with Michael. Uh, Michael, great to have you here from, uh, beautiful Denver, uh, Colorado. Let's talk. Um, uh, for starters, I wanna talk about, um, picking back up on this article here from our friends at Wall Street Journal, robotic limitations. Uh, Kevin and Greg were kind of alluding to this on, on, on the last segment of the conversation. Robotic limitations are holding back some efforts to fully automate fulfillment centers. So, Michael, tell us more here.
As a child of the eighties when movies were great, Oscars last night, and you see, you see all these robot movies, I love robots. Uh, now I think the real world is starting to set in though, in that there's just a lot of different products to move out there. And until a robot can develop its, uh, opposable thumbs and, uh, like a human being, we're just gonna have a hard time deploying these robots fully in a warehouse to have that dark warehouse. Uh, robots are, in my mind, supportive to human beings. They're additive. Uh, they are going to replace some of our activities, but not all of our activities. So I think it's super important. And I think one thing that this article highlights is these technologies are gonna coexist with human beings in the future, not necessarily replace us.
Very nicely said. Uh, Michael, that falls right in the line, I think, Greg, to what we have chatted about, uh, quite for years now. But Greg, your thoughts around what Michael just shared as well as this, uh, this article here from the Wall Street Journal about some of the limitations when it comes to robotic technologies?
Yeah, well, I've seen dark warehouses, uh, before, and as it turns out, it still takes a human even just to sweep the floor. So, um, <laugh>, so they're not completely dark. Um, but I, I think that, I think we have to, to think of things in terms of layers, right? There are aspects of a business that can be completely dark. I think of a, um, one of my favorite, uh, wine and spirits, uh, warehouse that I went to in Norway once where one section was completely automated. This was easily 10 years ago. Yeah. Easily 10 years ago.
Uh, but that was, for instance, that was entire pallets being shipped, right? All the pallets were scanned. They were literally in a dark section. I guess they were just trying to make the point by leaving the lights out. Um, they were literally in a dark section and they were robotically selected and placed on a conveyor, and then Dr. And then conveyed down to a truck robotically placed on the truck. But you have to juxtapose that with, for instance, vintage wines, which they're not gonna let a robot anywhere near
Bottle or 500 or 50 bottle, right? And those were being hand selected and carefully placed in individually sockets that went into a, what looked like a case of wine box. So mm-hmm. <affirmative>, we have to think about where, to Michael's point where robots are assisted, where robots are, uh, the complete solution and where they aren't the solution at all. And I think to think that, uh, especially right now, I'm not saying that it can't ever happen. I think we would be crazy to say that anything can't ever happen, but, um, but today we can't even envision where a robot could do certain things, certain of the really delicate or in intricate activities. Because even with opposable thumbs, who wants to risk a thousand dollars bottle of wine right? In moving and shipping it? I mean, that's, that's really the kinda of economic weighting you have to consider. So I, if we layers instead of think about the great over overtaking IRO company, but the movie, right?
I think that's more where we'll land. And okay, by the way, robots don't go out and apply for jobs, right? Guess who brings them to the site to employ them people?
Good stuff there, Greg. All right, Kevin, I want you get to weigh in. And then Michael, I'm gonna give you the final word on this first article. Then we're gonna move to the next one, Kevin.
We're, we're in a nod to the Oscars movies are built on fantasy. So all, all those, I love robot movies too, but they are fantasy. Uh, and number two, robot is not the right name. They are cobots. <laugh>, okay? They are there to assists a great one. Humans. Yeah. And as long as you keep that in mind, you know, you'll be fine. Don't go into fantasy. I love movies, right? But I know I'm looking at a fantasy. Yes. Right? Yes. So when, that's right. When you're in business, understand what you see in a movie is a fantasy. And what you're deploying aren't robots. They are cobos. Make sure you understand how they are cooperating with the humans, uh, in order to make your business better.
Kevin, I love that. Love that. Folks. You can down, you can check out the article that we're referencing here. The link is in the chat. And Michael, before we get your last comment here, I just gotta share again, this image. These are some serious robots, <laugh>, uh, I'm not sure where the team got this image from, but man, fantasy, uh, I'm not sure. Yeah.
One automatic weapon right there is that you, that your robot, do you want walking around with automatic weapons?
I think those are transformers, aren't
They? Maybe so. Maybe So. Um, alright, Michael, uh, your, your final word here, uh, around, uh, robots and limitations, advantages, you name your final word before move on.
I think a lot of your listeners are coming from that, that third part, third party logistics community. And, and what makes third party logistics so special is their, their agility. You know, for, for this year and next year, they're receiving wiring harnesses and distributing that to an automotive plant. The next year they're gonna be doing toys, and the year after that, they're gonna be doing something else. And so the changing product size product mentions for a third party logistics provider, in my mind, isn't a fit, because that makes them less agile. Now, if it's Pfizer who knows their product plan for the next five years and knows they're gonna have a consistent product in the same box forever, awesome use case for, for a cobot robot to help out there on the manufacturing side. But, you know, at, I think last year it was estimated spend for third party logistics was 250 billion in growing. And what makes those third party logistics providers so special is their agility, which comes with human beings working in the warehouse.
Mm. Love that. Love that. And by the way, uh, you, you may know this guy, Yosh says, those robots look like warehousing optimization robots, man, there's some heavy duty, some heavy duty optimization. I love that Yo <laugh>
Right? That's right, Greg. Um, alright, before we transition, I want to go back. You know, the Girl Scout cookies. We're getting lots of attention. Anthony says, Doy do all day every day. I love,
Yeah, I forgot about those. Those are like, uh, a good version of butters,
Do milk. Those are delicious, man. Yeah.
Now Kamisha is a fellow tr oils shortbread all the way,
All way. Shortbread, shortbread, baby
<laugh>, thin mint hashtag team thin mint, all the way <laugh>. And I think this is Amanda says, give me all the dossy do. And, and I'm with Michael. I love Samos. Okay. All right. Uh, a house divided here, uh, <laugh> at, uh, supply chain. Now home.
We know who wins in that case,
<laugh>. That's right. There's nothing meant here. There's nothing meant here. Um, alright everybody, thanks for, thanks for, uh, chiming in. We got a lot more to get to as is, uh, Catherine says, hashtag ben mint mafia.
All right, so let's get to this next story. Uh, Michael, uh, cause we're talking, you know, it kind of, um, it's a nice bookend for where we started the conversation with a lot of Greg and Kevin's thoughts around, uh, S V B. So here we're talking about, um, SoftBank, uh, evidently they're on the prowl as they've been chasing down Berkshire Gray. So Michael, tell us more about this.
Yeah, you know, I think, you know, SoftBank, uh, uh, great, great investment investment fund. We always read about them, whether it was WeWork or all the different investments that they've made throughout history. Uh, and they're, they're sort of like a leading indicator, right? They're willing to make those risky bets. And, and so they, they, believe it or not, I don't know if everybody remembers they purchased, uh, Boston Dynamics with, uh, everybody knows the, the creepy dog that walks around. And then now Boston Dynamics has the stretch robot that can reach into trucks and unload. Uh, they purchased Boston Dynamics, then sold Boston Dynamics to Hyundai, which I think was a good move. But anyways, uh, the story here is, um, you know, largest, uh, investment fund in the, one of the largest investment funds in the world continues to invest in robots. I think it is a smart play. We will see them as cobots, like, like Kevin alluded.
All right. So you mentioned a couple of those things that make up my nightmares. Uh, Michael <laugh>, uh, I think, I can't remember which pizza company started messing around with robotic delivery in the first generation of that, uh, robotic deliverer. I was not gonna open the door if they were knocking, even if it was the most tastiest pepperoni, dick crust pizza. No, sir. Um, all right. But kidding aside, uh, let's see here. Kevin, let's go to you first here. Your, your thoughts around this development from Bloomberg, SoftBank chasing after, uh, Berkshire Gray in wanting to, in invest more and more in robotics.
Well, I think, uh, like Michael said, they are a leading indicator, right? Um, that's smart money right there. And you, you always gotta follow that smart money. Mm-hmm. Um, so, um, I think, uh, uh, warehousing the, um, the effects of, of Nearshoring, um, the flexibility with respect to, uh, those processes, the, the whole need to be able to deliver a product or service to a marketplace of one, uh, that, um, you know, personalization mm-hmm. <affirmative>, uh, extreme personalization,
That we have, mass personalization, all of that. Really, you, you, you need robots that don't make a mistake. Yes, you need the, you need the humans to, to program them. Uh, but you need to get rid of all the mistakes that humans, uh, do. So, um, so soft bots with, um, artificial intelligence that's been, uh, programmed by, you know, real intelligence of humans. Mm.
<laugh>. Okay. Greg, uh, what's old is new again, I think we, we, we've kind of had a very well rounded conversation today around robotics. Your thoughts around what SoftBank is doing, Greg?
Well, um, I'm not as huge a fan of SoftBank, and they're investing, um, <laugh>, I think, I think the last few years have born, born out. The fact that they're vulnerable as any other investor. And, um, you know, investing in Adam Newman at WeWork shows where 45 minutes and a gram of cocaine can do for you
Asterisks, only joking only
Uh, but I think, I think, uh, Berkshire Gray is a great, is a good investment because their stock has been, uh, flagging a little bit lately. And instead of what I haven't been a huge fan of with SoftBank, which is betting huge amounts of money on unproven companies, and just kind of throwing it at a hundred different investments, uh, knowing that 90 of those will fail and 10, 10 will stagnate and one will be a unicorn. Uh, I think this is a much, much more reasonable and well established, uh, company, uh, approach. And, and they're, they're gonna shift their approach, just like we just talked about with, with, uh, Silicon Valley Bank. They have already shifted their approach has apologized for his hubris over the last couple years, a few months ago, and I think that was shortly after he disappeared for 30 days. I'm sure he was given some reeducation by the, by the Chinese Communist Party. And, um, and he saw the light strangely.
Uh, but I, I think it's, uh, I think it's, IM important to recognize that, that robots, in whatever form they are, they're the future. Yeah. They frankly have to be the future. Now, the decline of, of the human population is inevitable by 2050, the human population will be declining. So, um, and we're also seeing the largest generation in the history of earth retiring at an in incre, at, at a, the, a regular rate of 10,000 per day. But also remember that in 2021, over 3 million extra baby boomers retired. Yep. And they're not coming back for the most part. Right. So, um, this, we have to realize that the great resignation was a, a generation that was on its way outta the workforce to begin with. And a lot of what we've talked about here, the actual or human intelligence that informs artificial intelligence is or has, is leaving or has left the workforce. And what we need to focus on is capturing that knowledge and expertise and, you know, how those opposable thumbs get used and whatever else we need to know, right?
Right. Um, to make sure that we're, that we're, um, enabling the technology of tomorrow, which will be in large part robotics. Yes. Um, y you know, we're enabling that to solve the problems of now and into the future.
Yeah. Yeah. Remember how long it took us to reinvent concrete after the Romans?
That's right. <laugh>. We're still chasing down the recipe. We still know their recipe. Kevin, um,
In some countries haven't even succeeded yet. <laugh>.
So, Michael, I'm gonna give you the final word. Cause what if, if my, uh, thought here today, if folks have heard anything, it's not that our panel here today, our conversation is, is, um, um, you know, talking poorly of robotics, it's more about the approach, right? Re whether it's robotics or technology or e r p or whatever for those teams, those management teams out there that buy it and throw over fence, which is one of the things we talked about on, with that said, that approach is going to, um, it's not gonna win, uh, and not nearly as often enough as it should win. But Michael, speak to the approach, you know, it's like with everything else in life, it's all about the approach. Your final thought here, and we're gonna learn more about fulfilled Michael.
Yeah. I think it's, it's the acknowledgement that I need to be able to me as a logistics operator, whether I'm working at Procter and Gamble, or I'm working at a three pl, i, I need to be aware of, and I need to know that it's going to be a hybrid environment in the future. And, and technologies that I have today implemented in my supply chain need to be aware of both the human and non-human that are going to be interacting in the warehouse. And if my, I have technologies today that don't have the ability to control robot, or I have robot technologies that can't interact with the human being, I have a problem and I need a plan for this hybrid environment in the future.
Think regardless of what you say about technology, it's inevitable. So it doesn't really matter what we say here. Right. I, it doesn't matter whether we're for it or as my great would say for it, or again, it,
It's happen, it's inevitable. It has to happen, right? That's right. It literally has to happen for commerce to continue. So I think that's an important thing for us to recognize, not be afraid of
It. That's right. Great point.
To Michael's point and to yours, well, to all of your point, all
How you deploy it, right? Its how you use it. And is this where you use it, identifying the appropriate segment to use the appropriate type of automation or robotics or digital transformation of any kind. Yes. Right. Cause it's not one size fits all.
That's right. Well said Greg. Uh, well said a lot, lot of t-shirt isms in your, what you just shared there, <laugh> t-shirt, uh, Ryan says, get ready for a big shift on many levels for the human rights. Cause it's coming, as Greg says, it is inevitable. Okay. So Michael, um, let's talk about fulfilled. So in a, in a nutshell, small nutshell, for the three people out there that, that don't know yet, tell us what, uh, you and the fulfilled team are up to.
Yeah. So we're, we're a software company and we're out to create the citizen warehouse worker. Uh, if you, if you look at the Bureau of Labor and Statistics, resource turnover in the warehouse is over 40% on average. We have some customers that are, will over a hundred percent resource turnover per year in the warehouse. We have a shorter shortage of employees in the workforce. And so we acknowledge that, again, being a software technology company, we need to create that citizen warehouse worker who can walk in, pick up a device and be effective. And we do that by creating that digital twin in the warehouse and using indoor positioning functionality to navigate that worker throughout their day. That way they're effective day one or day two, rather than having a job shadow for a couple weeks.
Hmm. Like, it, um, sounds like a, a sound and smart approach. We've been fortunate to have a couple conversations with you and the team, uh, Greg, get you to respond to what Michael just described. Cause you know, if there's anything you've talked about time and time again, was it what we up to four D's or five D's that folks are avoiding
Dirty, dangerous, dull, right? Um, I think, I think, look, uh, and this is to the point that Kevin made earlier with, with rpa, the days of getting away with nine months, or one year, or three year implementations of technology, hopefully will be gone soon, but they're fading fast. And, and the experience of using technology in the workplace needs to be more like the experience of using the technology outside the workplace, right? It needs to be more like a regular consumer type solution where you can walk in, do the job, walk out, go to another warehouse, and do the same or different job with different, or same technology, right? Yep. Right. So this notion of being able to pick something up intuitively know how to use it in the workplace and get to work is absolutely critical.
That's, that's an important foundation of how technology will be deployed in the future app. Like is the notion that I, you know, I think of
So when's the last time you saw a user guide <laugh>
Users guide Kevin <laugh>?
Well, that's where robotics is, that's where we're going, right? In business, the robot's gonna show up and you're gonna tell it, go over there and do blah, blah, blah, and it's gonna go over and do it. You're not, you're, you're not gonna need a a user's guide. Um, uh, it's gonna be part of, uh, it's, it's will be an integral part of, of business. Yep. Um, and just expect it and get ready for it and be, and understand that it's something that's needed for, for our society to move forward.
Yep. Uh, and you gotta partner with the pros. So if you wanna learn more about what Michael Yo Ocean team are doing it fulfilled, check him out, fulfilled. Do io uh, Michael, if I'm not mistaken, y'all are gonna be at Proma, right? Uh, networking, showcasing, innovating, maybe having an adult beverage or two, I don't know. And you would invite folks to come check y'all out at, uh, ProMat, right?
That's right, that's right. At ProMat, we were, we're proud to be accepted into the startup pavilion. So we'll, we'll be showcased with nine other startups in the Start Startup Pavilion over at Proma. Uh, we'll, there every day work in the booth and, and come by. We'll be the guys in the, in the blue vests. You'll see us there.
Okay. Wonderful. Wonderful. And folks, we've got some links there in the chat, including if you wanna set up a, um, a cup of coffee with Michael Yosh team, y'all click the link and make you
Gonna have some shortbread cookies with that coffee <laugh>.
Nice, Kevin. Nice. Right on time.
So, uh, Michael, uh, what's one thing that you're looking forward to at proma? You
Know, I, yeah, again, I'm a, I'm, I'm big into AI and digital Twin, and I'm looking forward to just seeing, you know, how is AI been gonna be leveraged in the supply chain this year, next year, and the years after. Uh, whether that's robots, whether that's software, um, you know, all the AMRs out there, the assistive robots that are gonna be there at the show, excited to talk to them, excited to see Boston Dynamics again. I love their, their, their, their stuff. It's, it's super cool to look at. So, and excited to just meet, meet a lot of great supply chain people. Uh, it's a great conference. A lot of great thought leaders there.
Well, folks, y'all go check them out. Uh, Michael, beyond ProMat, for the handful folks that, that aren't gonna be able to make ProMat, how can folks connect with you in the fulfilled team?
Yeah, well, there's always the website fulfilled.io. There's no E in Fulfilled. And then over on LinkedIn, just look up Michael Patel, p y t e l. Happy to connect, share knowledge, bounce ideas off each other.
Awesome. Well, hey, on behalf of me and Kevin and Greg whole team, thanks for joining us here today. We've been chatting with Michael Patel, chief Technology Officer with Fulfilled Michael. We'll see you again really soon.
Thanks Michael. Thanks Scott. Thank you, Greg. Thanks, Kevin.
All right. So the big news here, the big news drum roll, please. Yes. Yosh says for you, Kevin, they will have those shortbread
<laugh>. All right. So, hey, we've got a couple extra minutes. Uh, Michael is very efficient. Uh, all y'all have been very efficient with, with some heavy hitting topics here today. Um, I'm gonna pose Cam's question to both of y'all. And, uh, Greg, let's, let's start with you. Kamisha says, what are your thoughts on the integrity of the data and intelligence fed into the AI engines? We've talked about this before. Yeah, Greg, your thoughts,
Uh, that's important. It's not currently universal. Um, you, you introduce a lot of bias in by the data that you put in, which is why notions like, um, and I have to confess, invested in companies that do this, notions like synthetic data are, are created to assure the, the, um, neutrality, right. Lack of bias in the data. For instance, if you train a shoe, if you train AI to see, to see shoes, by showing it only men's shoes, it'll only identify men's shoes as shoes and not women's shoes. Yeah,
Change it only to have see white people as doctors. It won't see anyone else as a doctor regardless of whether they're wearing a white coat. So you have to create a, a synthetic sort of environment and sort of cleanse that bias out, um, when you're doing that. And I think that's something we need to pay more attention to. I mean, PT is a great example. It can only report what it reads. It's important for people to recognize that that chat, g p t cannot innovate it, it cannot tell you anything that it can't read. Right, right. Um, and then it does this sort of internal argument. That's what these, that's what they're the, the pure mechanism is and says, this seems to be more credible than that, but it, it can be wrong and is frequently wrong on that. So yeah, I think what we have to recognize is that we have to be careful with the data to make sure that it is in fact, as neutral as possible.
And we also have to train AI to recognize, uh, data and, and it's potential biases. So, yeah. Um, how you, how you teach, it's like anything that you teach, I, I, I've always said this, AI is not our master and overlord AI is our child, and if we teach our child a certain way, it will have certain biases. If you teach a child in a very neutral way, it'll have a more neutral point, point of view on the world in a more open, I guess, point of view on the world. And I think that's what we have to think about.
Yep. Yeah. Uh, Kevin, your thoughts? Uh, Mia's question.
Well, first of all, artificial intelligence is a reflection of the human intelligence, of human intelligence. So, uh, that's why it's important to not transfer, uh, the biases, um, that, uh, humans have. We don't want to, um, make the same mistakes that we have as we go forward. I think it's important to understand that a synthetic environment with developed specifically to train artificial intelligence is, is a crucial, uh, step. Yeah. Um, and, uh, and, and just like our own society, that synthetic, um, environment needs also has ability to change and improve as, as we move forward so that artificial intelligence can change and improve as our, as we move forward and, and hopefully improve ourselves. Yep. So, um, yes, you know, it's, it's imperfect now, and it will always be imperfect unless we work together
That's right. To improve it. Uh, you know, uh, truly, I know it's cliche, but what's old is new again. I mean, the challenges associated with, uh, giving ai, um, accurate, uh, well-rounded, um, information, you know, feeding into so that you get good stuff on the other side. I mean, heck, 2020 years ago, uh, I was, I was working on maintenance data systems for the Air Force, right? Garbage in is still garbage out <laugh>. It's, it's, it's a, you know, nothing's different. It's just applied to a different part of technology, a different part of business, different part of, uh, of the innovative, uh, bleeding edge landscape. So, uh, Kamisha, great question and thanks for joining us here today. We'll talk a lot more about that, um, in the shows that come. Greg and Kevin, always a pleasure. I gotta throw this out there. Katherine, you mentioned chat. G P T I got, I gotta tell you that really slow when I say that, Greg Katherine says, first grad term, we had to sign an agreement that we wouldn't use AI or chat G p t <laugh> for the grad school papers. Uh, that's, that's where we are. That's where we are. Catherine, thank you for sharing.
So, I mean, let's think about this. So chat, G p t becomes really, really prominent, right? Yeah. I think it was, um, Princeton student created an AI technology that can detect that chat. G p T has written a paper, has written content, you know, it kinda builds on itself. And I think that internal discernment, right? I you can be filled with garbage. Yep.
I know people, you can be filled with garbage and have, and have whatever is the opposite of garbage. Honey sugar come out, right? Because I know people who were raised by terrible, terrible people who are in fact, themselves, their, their rebellion was to become a really, really good person, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. So, you know, it's not necessarily garbage in, garbage out, but you have to have an internal discernment engine that filters all of that to say, uh, this is my source. My source is a terrible person. Therefore, the opposite of this is probably true. Lemme investigate that kinda thing.
Right? And you always have to know that you can get better no matter where you are. Yes, you can always get
Better, endless curiosity.
And if we have our options, uh, I'd rather put, uh, non garbage in <laugh>. Always do we, I mean, we really don't always. Right? Sometimes we're limited to the day that we have available. Right. Yeah, that's a great point. Time we're limited. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. All the time we're That's right. Um, okay. Greg White, Kevin L. Jackson, we gotta stop here. Uh, Greg, always a pleasure. I love these buzz conversations. We had two rock and roll guests with us here today, but Greg really enjoyed it. You got 9.8 pounds into that bag to, oh man, we, we did. It is Gem <laugh>. But thank you Greg. Thank you Kevin for all the folks thank you that showed up here today. Man, thanks so much for all the comments that we couldn't get to all of them. Great audience, great audience, great questions, uh, full conversation. A lot more to come. Big thanks to Michael Patel and the Fulfilled team for dropping in as well. Y'all make sure you connect with them, whether it's that pro matter or somewhere else, but whatever you do, hey, don't just take this goodness from Greg and Kevin and Michael and ruminate on it, man. Act on it. Deeds not words. And with that said, Scott Luton challenging you to do good, to give forward and to be the change. We'll see you next time. Right back here at Supply Chain now. Right. Thanks somebody.
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